I know I've said it before, but here goes into more detail.
Currently, attacking a level 150 NPC gives me ~1.5k credits with 1 turn. ~5.5k with 20.
For the sake of this thread, I will forget about using 20 turns, it's inefficient for growing, and hardly gives enough credits to be worthwhile (at least to me).
It takes around 600 attacks for me to acquire 1m credits through attacking. Keep in mind that this is at the highest NPC level possible.
It takes around 41k attacks to ama** enough credits to simply 5 star 1 item. (Attacking a level 150 NPC)
41k is quite a lot. If we look at Alba, she has 115k total attacks, a level 100 player. If she never spent any of her credits, and never received credits from any other source, she would only have made enough money (if she attacked level 150's) to just barely 5 star 2 items, and 3 star a 3rd.
I think you see my point. Considering a player goes through many item sets along their way to level 100.
This isn't considering the credits made whilst attacking players. But if you consider on a good day, I make ~5m credits from attacking players, keeping in mind that I attack players with higher Cr/hr because they wear Inc sets, it still takes a long time to ama** credits.
Now I will take a very valid example of just how low credit gain is.
Consider a player around level 20, and that my items are in stock in [n00b] ESSM. (Since I don't have my items yet, I'll use RomanowsWeb as a base price)
That player gains ~500 credits attacking levels 20 and 15 NPC.
RomanowsWeb is level 35 and costs 8.8m to spawn at 5% increased profit. I'm guessing a level 20 item would be something like 6.5m?
It takes 13,000 attacks for a player to buy 1 of my items from the Vendor. Not to mention if they want to experiment with adding stars to it... that is way to many attacks for player to do, just wanting a few items. (I will have most of my items as drops though. Since I know all to well about this.)
I'm not entirely worried about higher levels making money, I'm worried about the low levels.
I thought of only 1 suggestion, make credit gain from lower level NPC's higher, and begin to decrease by a % the higher they become. But still more than 1.5k on a level 150 NPC.
I don't know what math is used to figure out the current amount of credits dropped though.
Please consider this CK. I hope my logic here isn't flawed
Currently, attacking a level 150 NPC gives me ~1.5k credits with 1 turn. ~5.5k with 20.
For the sake of this thread, I will forget about using 20 turns, it's inefficient for growing, and hardly gives enough credits to be worthwhile (at least to me).
It takes around 600 attacks for me to acquire 1m credits through attacking. Keep in mind that this is at the highest NPC level possible.
It takes around 41k attacks to ama** enough credits to simply 5 star 1 item. (Attacking a level 150 NPC)
41k is quite a lot. If we look at Alba, she has 115k total attacks, a level 100 player. If she never spent any of her credits, and never received credits from any other source, she would only have made enough money (if she attacked level 150's) to just barely 5 star 2 items, and 3 star a 3rd.
I think you see my point. Considering a player goes through many item sets along their way to level 100.
This isn't considering the credits made whilst attacking players. But if you consider on a good day, I make ~5m credits from attacking players, keeping in mind that I attack players with higher Cr/hr because they wear Inc sets, it still takes a long time to ama** credits.
Now I will take a very valid example of just how low credit gain is.
Consider a player around level 20, and that my items are in stock in [n00b] ESSM. (Since I don't have my items yet, I'll use RomanowsWeb as a base price)
That player gains ~500 credits attacking levels 20 and 15 NPC.
RomanowsWeb is level 35 and costs 8.8m to spawn at 5% increased profit. I'm guessing a level 20 item would be something like 6.5m?
It takes 13,000 attacks for a player to buy 1 of my items from the Vendor. Not to mention if they want to experiment with adding stars to it... that is way to many attacks for player to do, just wanting a few items. (I will have most of my items as drops though. Since I know all to well about this.)
I'm not entirely worried about higher levels making money, I'm worried about the low levels.
I thought of only 1 suggestion, make credit gain from lower level NPC's higher, and begin to decrease by a % the higher they become. But still more than 1.5k on a level 150 NPC.
I don't know what math is used to figure out the current amount of credits dropped though.
Please consider this CK. I hope my logic here isn't flawed
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited by Symphony @ Wed Mar 7 14:02:15 EST 2012
Awesome explaination 
I'm seeing this problem in low levels always...
everyone haven't the luck of knowing "old" players like me when i joined.
i knew a few of them and they helped me with those items, credits & points...
But i can't even help those new ones now...
I'll help you with more numbers, Symphony
To ugrade a whole set you need:
61,500,000 cr x 9 items = 553,500,000 = ~600,000 attacks
I made an average of 1200 attacks per day during ~90 days (i think its enough active)
600 000 attacks / 1200 attacks per day = 500 days = ~17 months to get a whole set 5 stars
I agree with Symphony... Really those numbers are big numbers for new players
Quote from Alba
Awesome explaination
I'm seeing this problem in low levels always...
everyone haven't the luck of knowing "old" players like me when i joined.
i knew a few of them and they helped me with those items, credits & points...
But i can't even help those new ones now...
I'll help you with more numbers, Symphony
To ugrade a whole set you need:
61,500,000 cr x 9 items = 553,500,000 = ~600,000 attacks
I made an average of 1200 attacks per day during ~90 days (i think its enough active)
600 000 attacks / 1200 attacks per day = 500 days = ~17 months to get a whole set 5 stars
I agree with Symphony... Really those numbers are big numbers for new players
Which is more attacks than I have done in my career of this game. I'm also ranked 4. That's just too many attacks.
Granted we are only looking at how much credits are gained through means of NPC. But the other ways of gaining credits aren't that substantial to decrease these statistics that much. Unless a player finds themselves winning ~50m in the lotto or something.
Btw, there was a lot of discussion on this matter, among other things within the chat, CK. I hope if you can find time to read it... a lot of it has been said before I suppose, starting at [13:39] server time.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited by Symphony @ Wed Mar 7 18:19:08 EST 2012
Has anyone ran the numbers for attacking with 20 turns for every attack? In my calculations last year, you got slightly less money than you would have if you'd done 1 turn attacks, but in substantially less attacks.
I'm not against increasing it, I just seem to have difficulty making it reasonably profitable, but not excessive when applied to players that do a great deal of attacks.
This is why I did the 20 turn thing. If you don't attack much, but you want to earn Credits, you can waste more turns in less time, and get almost as much as if you'd did 1 turn attacks.
If you attack a lot, you pretty much have to do 1 turn attacks, so the profit margin is smaller on each NPC, though technically you get slightly more money in total, after attacking all of your turns away.
I hope I'm making some small amount of sense here
It's still bad though; the numbers could be better. I'm even willing to change the whole system, if we come up with a better one
Invisible War ][
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited by Cyberkilla @ Thu Mar 8 9:04:19 EST 2012
Players at lower levels aren't going to have many turns to work with. Using 20 turns to attack is a terrible idea for them... I understand that 20 turns is supposed to be the money making strategy. But these players have horrible turns per hour, and 1.5k maxed turns.
I wont deny that using 20 turns is the way to make credits quickly, but by the way I see it, it's not a lot. It takes slightly less than 3.5k attacks to make more than you would with 20 turns in a whole day. (again, on level 150's, which only 15 or so players can attack)
Lets say on the 150's I used up my 3,500 turns then, I can attack 175 times, making 960k credits from that. Then I have 633 turns per hour (without Ambush, too much to figure out at).
If I sat here all day, each hour, using 20 attack turns for each level 150 NPC, I would make about 4,966,225 credits. Now, this is with maxed turns and turns/hr. Including the 3.5k I would start with at reset.
This is in comparison to if I used 1 turn per attack, nonstop attacking, using all of my turns throughout the day like I do with 20, I would make 27,088,500. Big difference.
Math isn't my strong suit though.
I've already thought of an idea before, which was removing the credit drops from NPC and creating an official map where players make credits from NPC, but gain no exp. So it's either gaining money or exp.
On another note, people who attacking a lot, deserve to make a lot of credits. It's no small achievement to attack a few thousand times per day, at least let them be rewarded with something more than just the exp, free points (more and more useless over time), and tiny gain of credits.
I think you fear that players that already have millions or billions will make a lot of money, or players who attack often will make a lot if the credit gain is increased, but that alienates players who are dirt poor or don't have time to attack, and don't actually have another source of income. (like new players, or players that don't buy points). Not very many people actually attack daily. We must think of these new players to the game.
I just remembered, back before you released WB, everything had higher credit drops... those were a good amount, why not just go back to how it was before WB? Making it so at least Official maps have higher credit drops?
I wont deny that using 20 turns is the way to make credits quickly, but by the way I see it, it's not a lot. It takes slightly less than 3.5k attacks to make more than you would with 20 turns in a whole day. (again, on level 150's, which only 15 or so players can attack)
Lets say on the 150's I used up my 3,500 turns then, I can attack 175 times, making 960k credits from that. Then I have 633 turns per hour (without Ambush, too much to figure out at).
If I sat here all day, each hour, using 20 attack turns for each level 150 NPC, I would make about 4,966,225 credits. Now, this is with maxed turns and turns/hr. Including the 3.5k I would start with at reset.
This is in comparison to if I used 1 turn per attack, nonstop attacking, using all of my turns throughout the day like I do with 20, I would make 27,088,500. Big difference.
Math isn't my strong suit though.
I've already thought of an idea before, which was removing the credit drops from NPC and creating an official map where players make credits from NPC, but gain no exp. So it's either gaining money or exp.
On another note, people who attacking a lot, deserve to make a lot of credits. It's no small achievement to attack a few thousand times per day, at least let them be rewarded with something more than just the exp, free points (more and more useless over time), and tiny gain of credits.
I think you fear that players that already have millions or billions will make a lot of money, or players who attack often will make a lot if the credit gain is increased, but that alienates players who are dirt poor or don't have time to attack, and don't actually have another source of income. (like new players, or players that don't buy points). Not very many people actually attack daily. We must think of these new players to the game.
I just remembered, back before you released WB, everything had higher credit drops... those were a good amount, why not just go back to how it was before WB? Making it so at least Official maps have higher credit drops?
Edited 5 time(s). Last edited by Symphony @ Thu Mar 8 10:54:24 EST 2012
